Mediocrity at its best

For the Love of God

Published on August 16, 2004 By MichaelProteus In Politics

So I wake up, with a steaming cup of joe, and I check my blog site, and voila! I'm being hammered by most everyone who commented on one of my articles. It's not that I'm being slammed, it's just that most of the people slamming me have their facts wrong they end up sounding like someone who's on the who's who of mental illness. Once again let me state for the record that these are SOLEY my opinions, and based on that others are encouraged to comment. It's pretty much a free forum, it can get crazy, and resort to name calling, but that goes with it when politics are involved. For the record, I have not been offended, and I hope that I have not offended anyone...If I have, tough! To be offended by a faceless entity, you shouldn't even be on the computer. Anyways enough of the preamble...lets get to it.

Like I always do when I wake up, I turned on the news...GUESS what? Two more American soldiers died in Iraq. Does anyone care anymore, or have we become so numb to the killing. Do you think that Bush stays up at night taking the responsibility? Well he dosen't, he sleeps soundly knowing his two daughters are safe and sound with their Secret Service Escorts. Why does it always have to be the pauper's children used as pawns in a game of world-wide chess.

Bush claims to be a Christian, but Christianity is a man-made religion and anything man-made has its faults. Does a Christian knowingly send people to their deaths, does a Christian double-talk, does a Christian confer with his team first then God? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bush isn't a Christian, that's not for me to do, but do we see any fruits of the spirit? I would hope that Bush has one guilty bone in his body, and that this "THING" in Iraq comes to an end sometime soon.

In my humble opinion I really do not think that this nation can take too much more of this. Just yesterday I saw on the news that some more soldiers were going to be deployed to Iraq. What's up with that? Did the United States hand over power? Why are we still in Iraq? Is it because Bush is such a darn nice guy? Oh I get it, Bush cares sooooo much for the Iraqi people that the United States is going to squat in Iraq for a little bit longer, how many U.S. troops will die before we pull out of Iraq for good?

Yeah, some of you think this is just the ramblings of a delusional man, or someone who needs some Prozac. I'm telling you people, things are going to get worse and worse...soon the United State won't be able to lie about it anymore...the truth is that the United States is having a HARD TIME in Iraq and the rebel clerics and their followers are giving the United States a run for their money.

No matter how this Iraq thing pans out, no matter what happens, the fact still remains the U.S. soldiers that were killed today along with the other 999, won't be coming back anytime soon, that's over 1000 families devastated...What are our fellow Americans dying for? I doubt that Bush even knows now, it's all about saving face, refusing to admit he made a mistake thinking the people in Iraq would let the Americans walk into their cities, and let them do as they pleased.

Where are the "Weapons of Mass Destruction?". I think that's what the American people are still waiting for...oh that's right there were none! That was the whole premise of going into Iraq, because the evidence now points out that Iraq wasn't involved in the 9/11 hijackings. So much for doing the right thing, regarding the welfare of individual lives, instead of pulling out of Iraq the U.S. is deploying more troops to the area.

As I wrap things up today I want you guys to hug those you love, and feel lucky that your loved ones are still with you, and that they weren't killed in a roadside bomb, or hit by a stray bullet; and lay dying in some foreign land. When you do hug that loved one, remember there are families that can't do that anymore.

The Bush War Machine continues to roll, and the death toll rises.

Comments (Page 1)

WiseFawn

on Aug 16, 2004

Another great article! If Europe looked at the US and decided we were cheated and hoodwinked by our leader and became very worried that he would run the US for yet another four years, and they decided that we had tortured and killed enough people and that we are, in fact, a danger to the world, and they marched over here to take him out of power and give us our freedom, do we think we would fight them?

I love your ending.

Madine

on Aug 16, 2004

I think that in order to win the war on terror we have to change the tyranical governments in the Middle East.

Tyveil

on Aug 16, 2004

I won't try to convince you to change your opinion. There are a lot of people that feel the same way as you and I can't say I blame you with the way the media has portrayed the whole situation. But the fact is a lot of people still support Bush and his stance on the War in Iraq (for good reason), and I am one of those people.

There is an interview with 4-star General Tommy Franks, who lead the first attacks on Iraq, that has some very good points to counter what people opposed to the war are saying. The full interview can be found here: Link

Some of the highlights:

"ROBERTSON: What about the whole thing about chemical warfare? You were warned, I believe by (Hosni) Mubarak and King Hussein, that Saddam Hussein was definitely going to use weapons of mass destruction. At least chemical or biological against your troops.

FRANKS: No doubt about it. I have told a lot of people in this country that I think maybe no one was more surprised than I was that we didn't have those weapons used against our troops in the very early days of this war in Iraq. I've thought about it, and it seems to me that to have not acted after 9-11 ... I am sitting in Washington D.C. this morning, a couple of miles from the Pentagon and I remember what that looked like September 2001. At the time when we were having our troopers fly in the no fly-zones over Iraq every day, and we'd been doing that for 10 years, and then all of this intelligence information that was coming in, as well as these hits on state and other leaders in the Middle East, telling us that there is no doubt that Saddam has these weapons. Pat, I don't think there is any way in the world that my country could have stood by and not taken action.

ROBERTSON: You said in your book, it is like having a pistol disassembled with boxes of cartridges on the table. They just haven’t been put together yet. Have you found all of the elements and what did you find in terms of WMD?

FRANKS: The way I describe it to my friends is, I remember when I was in high school, I learned about the periodic tables. We learned about hydrogen and oxygen, and if you put that stuff together as H2O, you get water. In Iraq, we didn't find any H2O, but we found an awful lot of H, and we found an awful lot of O. Some reporter in New York asked me a couple of days ago, well now, General, isn't it true since we didn't find the stockpile of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, it proves that we failed and made a bad decision when we went into Iraq? I looked at him, and said, Well, do you think it would have been better for us to just sit back and wait for him to put that stuff together and use it against us? "
------------------------------------------------------------------

"ROBERTSON: Last question: What about our commander-in-chief? Did he do a good job, in your opinion, or has he done a good job?

FRANKS: He has been a great leader for this country. I made a comment shortly after I retired, that I believe that in the future, people will look back on George W. Bush and reflect that he has been a hero of his time. I am obviously a fan. "

MichaelProteus

on Aug 16, 2004

WiseFawn,

In regards to your question: Yes, I think the bulk of the American people would fight, even those who do not like Bush. It's one thing for the people of America to take power from their elected leader. But, it's another thing when another country does it: ala our troops in Iraq. See other countries really have no business in countries but their own, it's unfortunate that America loves to intervene everywhere, but here at home. I remember when Yugoslavia was going through their civil war, America stood on the sidelines until almost half a million people were killed because of their religion. Then they made a show with only a handful of troops to try to stop Slobadan M.'s onslaught.

MichaelProteus

on Aug 16, 2004

Madine,

I think that in order to win the war on terror we have to change the tyranical governments in the Middle East

What a pleasure, and again the pleasure is all mine. Once again the only terror is the United States playing the cop role in the Middle East. This is not a modern day Germany with a charismatic leader like Hitler, who is practicing genocide. These are people who are rooted in a single belief, with a few bad apples who hate America. Big deal, every country in the world hates America. Who said it was our duty to change governments? What if someone wanted to change our government? How would you feel if the Chinese came over here and did just that? Don't think they could do it? They have a standing army of over one million troops, that's not counting reserves...if they wanted to, they could do it. How come we never sent a force over there when human rights violations were taking place, China has one of the worst governments in the world, but the U.S. just sat back and watched, because if the U.S. were to intervene; they'd be in a world of hurt. The United States picks it's battles carefully, and usually picks those they think they can win. Once again who made America the Judge, jury, and executioner?

MichaelProteus

on Aug 16, 2004

Tyveil,

FRANKS: No doubt about it. I have told a lot of people in this country that I think maybe no one was more surprised than I was that we didn't have those weapons used against our troops in the very early days of this war in Iraq. I've thought about it, and it seems to me that to have not acted after 9-11 ... I am sitting in Washington D.C. this morning, a couple of miles from the Pentagon and I remember what that looked like September 2001. At the time when we were having our troopers fly in the no fly-zones over Iraq every day, and we'd been doing that for 10 years, and then all of this intelligence information that was coming in, as well as these hits on state and other leaders in the Middle East, telling us that there is no doubt that Saddam has these weapons. Pat, I don't think there is any way in the world that my country could have stood by and not taken action.

First off, at no point is there difinitive proof that Iraq had any WMD. Second, it's already been confirmed Iraq played no part in the 9/11 attacks. The United States was lied to, and Tommy Franks bless his soul, is not going to bad mouth the president...because of this made up war, he gets to write a best selling book. At least someone is profiting from all the American deaths.

FRANKS: The way I describe it to my friends is, I remember when I was in high school, I learned about the periodic tables. We learned about hydrogen and oxygen, and if you put that stuff together as H2O, you get water. In Iraq, we didn't find any H2O, but we found an awful lot of H, and we found an awful lot of O. Some reporter in New York asked me a couple of days ago, well now, General, isn't it true since we didn't find the stockpile of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, it proves that we failed and made a bad decision when we went into Iraq? I looked at him, and said, Well, do you think it would have been better for us to just sit back and wait for him to put that stuff together and use it against us? "

Now he's justifying going into Iraq. If the readers out there can't see that, then this nation is in trouble. The chemicals he's talking about can be found in any science classroom at any college. Hell yes! They made a bad decision, though Franks says it was not...Mr Franks, tell that to the families who lost loved ones, and no WMD were found. Once again a bunch of double talk, and rationalizing.

FRANKS: He has been a great leader for this country. I made a comment shortly after I retired, that I believe that in the future, people will look back on George W. Bush and reflect that he has been a hero of his time. I am obviously a fan

Of course Franks is a fan, not only does he have a best selling book, but Franks is also Marketable- Speeches, lectures, interviews, he's got a cush job as an advisor. He owes all his success to Mr. Bush. Let's see no WMD were found, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Osama Bin Laden got away- remember the Bin Laden's are close friends of the Bush's, and over 1000 American soldiers have been killed. Bush, it's time someone told you to take a big fat flying leap off of a steep pier. Can anyone justify our role in Iraq, not rationalize, JUSTIFY?

As for Bush being a HERO, why not make Hitler, Stalin, Edi Amin, Noriega, Arafat hero's also. Why stop with one MORON, let's include them all.

Gideon MacLeish

on Aug 16, 2004

Michael,

Excellent article. I will warn you, however, that there are many here who take the position that this war had nothing to do with WMD, and that's just a liberal lie (I'm not a liberal, and it seems to me that was said; but since I can't quote the exact moment it was said, I refrain from commenting).

As to offending, I am going to make a quick mention that the people I have seen offended (not me; though we disagree, I enjoy the intellectualism of your posts in general), have been offended by the name calling that goes beyond the objective in your posts. Write your way, but in replies on other people's threads, you may want to keep the arguments to the subject at hand and not make it personal (anyway, just a little constructive criticism there).

MichaelProteus

on Aug 16, 2004

Gideon MacLeish,

As to offending, I am going to make a quick mention that the people I have seen offended (not me; though we disagree, I enjoy the intellectualism of your posts in general), have been offended by the name calling that goes beyond the objective in your posts. Write your way, but in replies on other people's threads, you may want to keep the arguments to the subject at hand and not make it personal (anyway, just a little constructive criticism there).

I hear what you are saying loud and clear, and I appreciate that. I really do. In reference to the name calling...I've never made any of my replies personal. As for the name calling, I believe I lack a little Tact, therefore...I will keep that in mind when I respond to comments...though I have never resorted to using derogatory words, or profanity...I do understand what you are trying to convey. I believe people will get mad without the name calling though, so I just speed the process up--Just kidding, just a little levity there. Believe it or not, I enjoy when people comment, that's why I make it a point to respond to each. Thank your for your comments, they are most welcome anytime.

Madine

on Aug 16, 2004

You guys can rest easy regarding our elections, there will be European observers to monitor our elections. Link

The stricly legal question to what "right" we had to go into Iraq was UN resolution 678.

Who said it was our duty to change governments?

FDR. Link

What if someone wanted to change our government?

Good luck. The US has one of the oldest active governments. There have been other countries who wanted to change our government, and they haven't succeeded. I think the US has moral superiority to dictatorships. Do you?

The Chinese are not currently a serious conventional threat to the US mainland. In order for their army to invade they would have to get across the Pacific Ocean, which would be tricky considering our naval dominance.

What is wrong with picking our battles?

Lee1776

on Aug 17, 2004

Michael I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it.

1. If we don't stay in Iraq now then we leave ourselves open to repeat the past. During the 70's the U.S. supported the Afghanistan fighters against the USSR. After the USSR pulled out we left that country out to dry. If we had spent a little time helping them, then the terror camps and radicals would not have helped bring down the towers. How ever we got into the war, if we cut and run like you subject, we are just asking to repeat our mistakes.

2. The WMD was never the reason why we went into Iraq. We went into Iraq because Sadam did not live up to his end of a peace treaty. We beat him fairly during the first war in 91 and he signed a piece of paper saying that he would show the world that he had gotten rid of the WMDs. He never did.

It would be like the guy next door beating his wife and kids every day. Then one day he beats your dog. You decided to kick his ass. When you finished, you had him sign a promise not to beat anybody any more. Two days later he beats his kids right in front of you and then flips you off. Your telling me that you would not have the right to kick his ass again?

What use is a peace treaty if no one follows it. Hitler broke every treaty that he signed. The world would be allot different if someone would have had kicked his ass when broke his treaties.

3. Last time I checked military service was "VOLUNTARY". A fact that Michael Moore seems to gloss over. Parents don't enlist their sons or daughters in the military. It is the individual choice to volunteer, know one put a gun to their head and force them to sign. I've been in service for over 17 years and have noticed that most people that enlist DO NOT come from the lower classes of society as Moore claims. The next time you watch that movie of half truths and incomplete interviews you will hear him say "that only one member of congress has an enlisted son or daughter presently in the military". Over 15 others have had children serve as enlisted in the past and another 36 presently have children that are officers presently in service. I guess that having your children serving, as officers don't count to Mister Moore.

4. The average enlistment contracts for a soldier serving in the military is two to four years. That means almost all of us personnel in service since 9/11 have enlisted or reenlisted voluntarily. We go where we are told to go and fight who we are told to fight. If you don't think that Iraq is the right place to fight, then let me ask you one thing: has there been an attack inside the U.S. since 9/11? No, because we are fighting them in they’re back yard. During my eight months in Iraq, 3/4 of all dead or captured that I seen was NOT Iraqi, but foreign fighters that came there to die for Allah. I would rather have them dieing there for Allah then here attacking my wife and home. Again, those 999 soldiers that have died are “VOLUNTEERS”.

You may vote what ever way you wish to this election, that is your right. But just remember, do you want to go back to fighting terror using a law enforcement agencies (which can not arrest anybody outside the US) or finish them off and bring democracy to other countries in the process. For some reason the Democratic party don't want to let others vote for who leads them.

That's my two cents

MichaelProteus

on Aug 17, 2004

Madine,

You guys can rest easy regarding our elections, there will be European observers to monitor our elections. Link

Right, like that really helped when the ballots were messed up in Florida. No matter if God himself were to monitor our elections, it still really wouldn't make a difference. I really can't rest easy knowing that Bush will probably get the nod again.

The stricly legal question to what "right" we had to go into Iraq was UN resolution 678

Too bad, the United States went in there WITHOUT the support of the U.N. What right do other countries have meddling in other peoples affairs? None whatsoever. Unless there is a bonafide threat to the world. Iraq is no threat to the world, just to their own people and us, because we're there.

I can't believe you put "Moral" and "U.S." in the same sentence. Regardless of what I think, the morals of the United States is suspect at best.

What is wrong with picking our battles?

Well when you pick battles, you choose the ones that look appealing. Not the ones that need to be fought. The United States was no where to be seen in the Ivory Coast, Yugoslavia--when the ethnic cleansing was going on, the U.S. let Tibet go to the Chinese. Where there is something to be gained monitarily the U.S. is there, if there is nothing to be gained--the U.S. is no where to be seen. If Kuwait did not produce oil, Kuwait would now be a part of Iraq.

MichaelProteus

on Aug 17, 2004

Lee1776,

1. If we don't stay in Iraq now then we leave ourselves open to repeat the past. During the 70's the U.S. supported the Afghanistan fighters against the USSR. After the USSR pulled out we left that country out to dry. If we had spent a little time helping them, then the terror camps and radicals would not have helped bring down the towers. How ever we got into the war, if we cut and run like you subject, we are just asking to repeat our mistakes.

I think you're off base, it's not that we left them out to dry. The CIA trained the Afghan guerillas--they may have done too good of a job. See what we forget is that in half of the conflicts the U.S. is in, at one time or another we've given them support only to have it come flying back in our faces. Example Afganistan, we trained their fighter who in part trained others...and so on. No only can they fight us face to face, but they now know tactics, and worst of all we gave them weapons and money--all of these things have come back to haunt us. The Terror camps are a product of our advisors going over there and training them in the art of Assasination, demolitions, covert ops...we trained the very people who flew planes into our buildings. Talk about repeating mistakes, we also put the Shah of Iran into power--gee could the United States be more helpful?

The WMD was never the reason why we went into Iraq. We went into Iraq because Sadam did not live up to his end of a peace treaty. We beat him fairly during the first war in 91 and he signed a piece of paper saying that he would show the world that he had gotten rid of the WMDs. He never did.

That's because he never had any...if you don't have it then you can't produce something you don't have. Besides if the U.S. would have taken him out of power the first time, American soldiers wouldn't be getting killed today. We used WMD as the catalyst to go back into Iraq...remember opec had jacked up oil prices right before the U.S. went into Iraq again.[

quote]It would be like the guy next door beating his wife and kids every day. Then one day he beats your dog. You decided to kick his ass. When you finished, you had him sign a promise not to beat anybody any more. Two days later he beats his kids right in front of you and then flips you off. Your telling me that you would not have the right to kick his ass again?

First off, your metaphor is in poor taste. No one, I repeat NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT to kick anybody's butt, unless their life is in direct danger. Second, you call the cops. Your example is not even close to what went on in Iraq. It was not simple as that, there were so many political factors that went into the invasion of Iraq, it would take years to sort out and find the truth, but they all have one common denomonator: OIL.

Last time I checked military service was "VOLUNTARY". A fact that Michael Moore seems to gloss over. Parents don't enlist their sons or daughters in the military. It is the individual choice to volunteer, know one put a gun to their head and force them to sign. I've been in service for over 17 years and have noticed that most people that enlist DO NOT come from the lower classes of society as Moore claims. The next time you watch that movie of half truths and incomplete interviews you will hear him say "that only one member of congress has an enlisted son or daughter presently in the military". Over 15 others have had children serve as enlisted in the past and another 36 presently have children that are officers presently in service. I guess that having your children serving, as officers don't count to Mister Moore.

Bull, I really do not know where you are getting your facts, but NO MEMBER OF CONGRESS HAS ONE SINGLE CHILD IN IRAQ. That was confirmed by Time magazine, and Time is full of propaganda. Heck our current president was AWOL, when he was ordered to report for duty. The truth really hurts to some people, because when they are exposed to the bright shining lie...they must make excuses and point the finger eleswhere: Michael Moore.

The average enlistment contracts for a soldier serving in the military is two to four years. That means almost all of us personnel in service since 9/11 have enlisted or reenlisted voluntarily. We go where we are told to go and fight who we are told to fight. If you don't think that Iraq is the right place to fight, then let me ask you one thing: has there been an attack inside the U.S. since 9/11? No, because we are fighting them in they’re back yard. During my eight months in Iraq, 3/4 of all dead or captured that I seen was NOT Iraqi, but foreign fighters that came there to die for Allah. I would rather have them dieing there for Allah then here attacking my wife and home. Again, those 999 soldiers that have died are “VOLUNTEERS”.

So I'm still waiting for you to re-inlist, what are you waiting for? Come on, do it for your country and wife and kids, what are you waiting for...it seems you from the way you talk you like death, well come on, show you're true colors of being an American, kill somemore "Foreigners". Volunteers or not, that's not the problem, the problem is with our leaders. How would you like it if I had the power to reactivate you...huh? Yeah, I didn't think so. Tell you what, how would your wife have taken it if you were killed in Iraq and I said, well he VOLUNTEERED...but don't worry another VOLUNTEER took his place.

Madine

on Aug 17, 2004

Was the US justified in bombing Iraq in 1998? What right did we have to refute Iraq's claims to Kuwait in 1991? Who gave us the authority to bomb Yugoslavia? What right do we have to sanction Sudan? Who said we can tell Iran and North Korea they can't have nuclear weapons? Who gives us the authority to tell Israel and Palestine they have to make peace? What right do we have to tell China they can't invade Taiwan?

Lee1776

on Aug 17, 2004

The CIA trained the Afghan guerillas--they may have done too good of a job. See what we forget is that in half of the conflicts the U.S. is in, at one time or another we've given them support only to have it come flying back in our faces.

Thanks, you helped make my piont. When we had finished teaching them to fight we sould have showed them how to govern.

That's because he never had any...if you don't have it then you can't produce something you don't have.

I think 5,000 dead Kurds is proof, or was that just a mass suicide? Anyways after the first war, Iraq turned over documentations showing tons to chemicals. The UN inspectors never received evidence that he destroyed all the chemicals he did admit to, let alone all that he didn't admit to. So where are they? Remember how long it took for us to find out what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.

First off, your metaphor is in poor taste. No one, I repeat NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT to kick anybody's butt, unless their life is in direct danger. Second, you call the cops.

Hummmm? Call the cops? Ooohhh you mean the UN. If we had to wait for them then Saddam would still be there and the UN would still be getting kick backs in the Oil for Food program.

So your saying (using my poor taste of a metaphor) that if you called the cops 14 times and they warned the guy next door to stop beating your dog and he still continues (while giving you the bird) you would do nothing? Boy, next he will start beating your wife too.

NO MEMBER OF CONGRESS HAS ONE SINGLE CHILD IN IRAQ

Hay, please don't miss quote me. There may not be any serving in Iraq at this time. Micheal Moore said "presently serving in the military". Ya, I also went to the movie.

I just payed for Schrek and went into his movie.

Heck our current president was AWOL, when he was ordered to report for duty.

All records show that he was payed for attending drill. Do you exspect your school from 30 years ago to keep hand writen records of your attendence? Can you tell me every persons name and if they attended every class you were in your senior year? The longest document maintained in a unit is their 201 file, pay (LES Leave and Earning Statements) and medical exams that shows he was there. Everything else is destroyed after two years. Next time it is required to have a person show up for drill and get a photo with the latest newspaper tell me and I'll get my readness NCO to buy a stack each month, then maintain them for 40 years.

And if you want to throw mud, just ask John Kerry to show his COMPLETE medical records. It just strange that the military gave his campaign all his records and he will not release documentation on two of the three visites that got him his Purple Heartes. At least Bush has releast his.

So I'm still waiting for you to re-inlist, what are you waiting for?

I already have and my wife married me knowing full well what my life intells. She may not like that fact some times, but she married me just the same.

How would you like it if I had the power to reactivate you...huh?

OK, you do. Thats your vote. If you and your buddies get together and vote out Bush then reactivate me for some other mission then I'm the guy that will stand behind your choices.

Though you like to use the word "VOLUNTEER" as a bad thing. Its a commiment that I was willing to take. Would you have the same conviction if it was Kerry in office? By what I read, I think not. And if you think that Kerry is Anti-War, you didn't hear his speach at the national convention. It was one of the only platforms that he did state. (Yes, I watched that too).

Also one last thing; A bill was placed in cangress earlier this year reinstating the draft. It was just interesting to know that all three members that submitted it had a "D" next to their name. So now the Democratic party was to force people to die for whoever in office.

My two cents

terpfan1980

on Aug 17, 2004

Reply #12 By: MichaelProteus - 8/17/2004 11:24:11 AM

Bull, I really do not know where you are getting your facts, but NO MEMBER OF CONGRESS HAS ONE SINGLE CHILD IN IRAQ. That was confirmed by Time magazine, and Time is full of propaganda. Heck our current president was AWOL, when he was ordered to report for duty. The truth really hurts to some people, because when they are exposed to the bright shining lie...they must make excuses and point the finger eleswhere: Michael Moore.

Already refuted above and in many other places (the comment about Bush being AWOL).

And that would be as opposed to our prior President (aka Bubba the Draft Dodger Codger?!)

Or as opposed to John -- I'm only here for the medals that I'll one day throw away -- Kerry?

And thanks for confirming that you get your "truths" from Michael Moore.

Be sure to check out Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, though it may cause you some heartburn....

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